The jon kiper show

Jon: What's happening? I'm Jon Kiper. This is Jon Kiper show. we are live, we're doing a special musical episode of the show, with my buddy Rainnor here of the band, Marvel Prone. You may have seen them performing in the Seacoast area or Manchester, or other parts of New England. And he also is one of my former employees.

Jon: So Rainnor, welcome to the show. we are gonna talk about, being a musician in New Hampshire and just being a musician in general. And, I used to be in a band and we used to perform and play around, and it was hard. It's hard. You lugging all the gear and you gotta pay rent and then you.

Jon: Frequently don't get paid. 

Rainnor: Yep. 

Jon: How's your experience been being a musician in New Hampshire? 

Rainnor: thanks for having me, John. I appreciate it. This is really cool. I, it's really tough when you're trying to make it as a musician in New Hampshire. Especially New Hampshire, just because, there isn't as many metropolitan areas and, there are only a few Decent venues to play at for musicians that are trying to get their original music out there. so when you compound that with the, the cost of living in New Hampshire, which is especially high compared to other parts of the country, and then, paying student loans and all that stuff, it's just incredibly hard to, fully commit to making music like a full-time thing.

Rainnor: I, my goal personally is to be gigging four or five nights a week and, because that's what I would be able to, match what I'm making at my daytime job. But 

Jon: yeah, 

Rainnor: pretty much most musicians that play in this area that want to make music a serious thing, they still have to work a day job.

Rainnor: Yeah, there's no way around it. 

Jon: Yeah, it's tough. I was playing shows, I think in, the early 2010s. And it's funny 'cause you do a lot of work. If, you're putting up the posters and you're making the Facebook invite and the, yeah, doing all this stuff and then, hopefully your girlfriends and your friends show up at the show and usually at the beginning of your, experience, they show up a lot.

Jon: your family's showing up. 

Rainnor: Yeah, 

Jon: And then after it's been a couple of months or, a couple dozen gigs or something, suddenly the girlfriends stopped showing up. your buddy's already seen you play. And that's I think, what, the part where a lot of bands just fizzle out.

Jon: Yeah. 'Cause they're like, 

Jon: you have to push through. I would assume, I fizzled out too, but 

Rainnor: yeah. 

Jon: You gotta play. I, we played, my band played this one gig, at this bar that's closed now in Plano. And it was really funny 'cause the bar was right above a fried fish place. Okay.

Jon: So the whole place just smelled like fried fish. And it was a Friday night and we had heard from somebody else that you got paid 200 bucks to play this gig no matter what. So we're like, let's just do it. and obviously we invited some friends, but it was in Plato, far from here. not that far, but no one came and, there was maybe like six or seven guys at the bar and we were playing in a room that was like.

Jon: Next to the bar, so not even really in the same room as them. And we play the first set. One of the guys walked in and watched us for like maybe five minutes, and that was it. Yeah. And after the first set, the woman who owned the place came over and she was like, "Hey, I was gonna give you 200 bucks, but I'll give you a hundred bucks and you can just leave right now."

Jon: The guy I was playing with was like trying to argue with her. I'm like, "Buddy." Let's just go, let's call it a night. I'm sick of smelling like fried fish and I also don't think anyone else is coming to this bar tonight. And, it was brutal. What was the worst gig you ever played? 

Rainnor: yeah, yeah.

Rainnor: Similar to that, like anytime there's a show where. No, there's just no one there, aside from like a couple people and it's just the bands watching and and the bartenders. It's, it really is hard to put on a good show for, yeah, when no one's there. And it's very hard to get people out to shows.

Rainnor: There is a show that I played in Akron State, at this bar. I forget the name of it, but, It was actually worse than that because, no discrimination, but it was just a bunch of old people, and it was a college bar. So we went to this college bar expecting, thinking it'd be college kids, it was gonna be college kids, but we were playing earlier around 6:00 PM, and so it was just a bunch of, boomers there and we.

Rainnor: They were just like, and they were, they were dancing, man. They were having such a great time, which somehow just made it that much worse. It seemed worse that it was just like, oh my gosh, all these old people are just having so much fun right now. no hate to old people, but it was, I was just hoping it was gonna be a younger crowd, and that was just, and yeah, it's very hard to get, Our peers out to shows and stuff like that. And the key really is to invite your friends, invite your family, time and time again and just, keep that going and try to, get gigs that they're really gonna enjoy coming to. And, I think that's where it starts. Yeah. and then it has to break off from there.

Rainnor: you have to. Bring enough people to your shows that other people want to come to your shows just because there's a lot of people there. 

Jon: Yeah. 

Rainnor: so 

Jon: it is funny to me 'cause New Hampshire is an older state. one of the second oldest states in the country. So by the nature of New Hampshire, there are more older folks here.

Jon: And, it's funny 'cause we've seen this thing happen with the Stone Church over the last probably couple years where. The biggest nights they have are the Grateful Dead cover bands, 

Rainnor: right? 

Jon: And, it's a lot of older folks that were Deadheads. they knew, saw Grateful Dead a million times or whatever.

Jon: and it's funny because. I would like to see more original bands playing original music, of course, like maybe inspired by the Grateful Dead, but maybe not exactly the Grateful Dead. Yeah. But at the same time, you can't argue with business, right? they do the shows that people come and spend money for.

Jon: Yeah. And I think that's one of the most frustrating things is I've had so many friends, I had one friend that was in this band. They were playing. They, I liked the original music. It was good. Yeah. But the most profitable gig every month or every week was this Sunday night cover band set that they would do in Boston.

Jon: And they'd play all indie rock cover bands that were bands that were, they were influenced by, but none of their originals. Yeah. and they were like it, they were just ripping, pulling their hair out. 'Cause they're like, it's so annoying that we are, it's like almost doing what you wanna do for a living.

Jon: Yes. Just a little bit removed. Enough. Yeah. That it's like frustrating, 

Rainnor: right? The most profitable band I've been a part of is a band called Rivers Saying Wild. Yeah. And we do a lot of restaurant gigs. And that sort of stuff to maintain, and that actually becomes a, pretty, rewarding, lucratively, 

Jon: which is better than working in a stupid restaurant.

Rainnor: Yeah. Which I still do, which I still, 

Jon: I guess I would rather play cover songs. Let me get this completely out, out there. I would rather play cover songs to boomers than work in a restaurant. 

Jon: But obviously the next part would be. Playing original music, yeah, to a crowd of all ages people, 

Rainnor: And then those gigs just don't pay as much for some, Yeah. And venues usually take a good cut, like good 25% of the door for those gigs, even though they're still getting the bar. And it doesn't really work out fairly for the artist. yeah. So the, this stuff happens all the time.

Rainnor: Yeah. with every venue this, and this is like a, nationwide issue with musicians. And honestly, I think. there used to be a time, not necessarily when I was around, but there used to be a time that. Where smaller artists had a much easier path to opening for bigger artists.

Jon: Yeah. 

Rainnor: And, but now we have a real, centralized, corporation, Live Nation and Ticketmaster, running 

Jon: all the, 

which 

Jon: made venues 

Rainnor: run all the venues and. Control all the booking agency. Yeah. And it makes it so much harder to, say if you want to open for a big act like Mac DeMarco or something like that, you could be a big fish in Boston.

Rainnor: Yeah. And still not be opening for Mac DeMarco. Yeah. You could be the most popular Boston local band and you're not gonna open up for Mac DeMarco because. Live Nation and Ticketmaster has all that planned out for, them. And, there's no way to get your foot in the door. So it just seems like there's just a very centralized, corporate power in music.

Rainnor: Yeah. and if, Steve Albini said, if we can just get rid of Ticketmaster, that would be the last dragon of the music, because a lot of other things have become democratized in the music industry, which is great. 

Jon: it's definitely one of those things that. I was talking about, on a TikTok video the other day where I was like, Republicans sell the idea that less government means more freedom, right?

Jon: But it actually just means more like corporate control of your life, like when the government isn't doing, things like stopping monopolies. and putting these big companies like Live Nation in check, which like, I'm sure that they're in violation of some monopoly laws or some.

Jon: and it just seems on its face, it's gotta be the fact, the way that they're manipulating a lot of these venues. And being like really the only game in town. there was a time when the federal government would've broken up a company like that. 

Rainnor: Yeah. 

Jon: and it's just, it's like another way that like money just like flows to the 1% that are able to pull it off.

Jon: And another little thing I think people don't realize that often is that frequently when you dig into the biography of somebody, like with a one hit wonder or. A lot of these, bands that sort of come outta nowhere, you do some clicking, you realize, oh, this guy's dad works for that. that studio or this production company, or this guy's mom is like this famous actress, or, And you're digging, you're like, oh. These are all like rich kids, Oh, for sure, whose parents were willing to fund their whole careers. 

Rainnor: Yeah, it, yeah, exactly. That's the only way that you can put like a serious investment of time and money into a musical project, and sometimes it pays off where you can actually get a, hit song or whatever, but.

Rainnor: Yeah. It's rich kids who can afford really nice equipment and stuff like that. They can record in studios and all that stuff, and all the time. And, my, my dad, I'll even admit it, like my dad helped me record, with Steve Albini. Yeah. And that was a really. great opportunity for me, and I wouldn't have been able to do it without his help.

Rainnor: I was originally going to pay for all of it myself and with an, with the band, but then my band broke up and so I was, I only had a third of what I needed. Yeah. for the studio session. My dad really had my back, so you can always, the parents do come into play and But yeah, upper cl, upper class, kids usually have the best shot at making it in the mu, music industry because they can pour a lot more time into it.

Rainnor: They don't need to think about getting a career, rolling or anything. They can just, they can buy a bunch of cool music equipment and spend a lot of time and money on their music. Yeah, and promoting it a lot, Facebook ads, everything, and the 

Jon: promotion is really like where you can spend a lot of money.

Jon: Yeah, and where you can buy an, a level of success as long as, there's some, demand for your music. Why don't you talk a little bit about Steve Albini and, who he was and what it was like recording with him? 

Rainnor: Yeah, so I had the opportunity to record with Steve Albini in, 2020.

Rainnor: Two. and Steve Albini is absolute legend. he recorded, Nirvana's In Utero, the Pixies, and the, then the breakoff from the Pixies, the Breeders and, Ty Segall, who's pretty, popular in this area. yeah. so he has recorded a bunch of incredible bands, and he's one of the like.

Rainnor: he passed away recently. Rest in peace. 

Jon: RIP Steel Bei. 

Rainnor: Yep. And, but he was, he's one of the last people that was able to, Keep a fully, maintained analog recording studio. Where that's sweet. he has tape machines from the eighties, which is apparently the, the peak of, tape machine era.

Rainnor: Yeah. so he has the best vintage tape machines, the best vintage mixing boards, vintage microphones. So it really was like heaven on earth recording with him. just absolutely. 

Jon: And the recording quality, it comes off in it. it sounds. It just sounds like legitimate, like vintage. Nineties alternative rock and I think sometimes people think that they can get that sound by using, it's it's funny 'cause like you use high tech to sound lo-fi, which I think is so funny.

Jon: You know what I mean? it's like you're spending money to make it sound like it was a tape machine because a tape machine's like too complicated for us to use now. No. 

Rainnor: Yeah. 

Jon: Which is. David Sheets, our wicked pain in the butt. but it's such a, it ended up being a really good album. and why don't you, for the folks back out there, what, was the name of that?

Jon: That project was Marvel Prone. What was that album? 

Rainnor: Yeah. Yeah. So the album is 11:22. Like the 

Jon: time. 

Rainnor: but like the time, yeah. 11 colon 22 by Marvel Prone. So like Marvel Comics, Accident Prone, yeah. Marvel Prone. 

Jon: And did you check out that album because it's, it's really good. It's, especially if you are into.

Jon: Vintage sound, or if you're audio file at all, because I think that you can really hear Steve Albini's work. I think it's, really, it's clear, Yeah. That it's it's that it was done by a guy that knew what he was doing, and it was really, I think, frankly, an affordable, I, you say your dad helped out, but it wasn't like it was a hundred thousand dollars.

Rainnor: Yeah. Yeah. It, yeah, it was 10 grand. 10 

Jon: grand. Which 

Rainnor: like for six days. Yeah. 

Jon: It's pretty cool that this guy, Steve Albini, is willing to record anybody. For 10 grand. 

Rainnor: Yeah. 

Jon: For six days. that's in itself is such a cool, way for a guy to make a living. But all, he's obviously probably making really good money, but also able to hook people up who, obviously he was charging 50 grand, yes, he never would've done it.

Jon: Yeah. and he probably could have charged more. Yeah. 

Rainnor: Yeah. he grew up in the DIY punk scene of Chicago. 

Jon: Okay. 

Rainnor: Even as he was becoming more successful as an engineer and then had, especially after the In Utero album. Yeah. Every, everyone wanted to record with him. He didn't really change his prices and, his prices is only going like gradually up with inflation over time because he's always want, wanted to just be like.

Rainnor: Part of the DIY, yeah, punk scene, and, that someone can go to and for an affordable rate of, competent engineer. But to go back to what you were saying with, the, the, the apartment prices and everything. I have to live with a roommate in order to afford.

Rainnor: Yeah. I can't, live in a, I was living in a studio, it was $1,700. Whoa. all included in New Market. Yeah. And, it was, a nice little studio and everything, but I, was, I was working in, a factory full time, getting a decent amount of money, but it was, just like constant work and just even making the amount of money I was making there, I was still barely.

Rainnor: Skimming by, and I actually needed the gigs. I needed the gigs to get by. That was the supplemental income that actually made it possible to stay at the studio. But I was saving no money whatsoever. Yeah. now I live, now it's a slightly better situation. I'm living with a roommate and I'm paying 900 a month.

Jon: That's great. 

Rainnor: But 

Jon: it's still a lot. 

Rainnor: It's still a lot. It is a funny thing, but one thing I wanted to mention was when we signed the lease there, they didn't update. The rent price. So we saw the old rent price, and it was, so the, our current, like the current for both of us is like 1800. 

Jon: Yeah.

Rainnor: When we signed the lease, it was like 1500. 

Jon: Yeah. 

Rainnor: Yeah. like it was like, oh, sh. So 

Jon: they're jacking 300 bucks. So they basically just 

Rainnor: because 

Jon: you're new. 

Rainnor: Yeah. Who knows? Probably from just like past three years, they've been probably just jacking up a hundred bucks each, year. So it's crazy.

Rainnor: It's just absolutely skyrocketing. Yeah. 

Jon: I don't think. I don't think people who have lived in a house for a while and been paying a mortgage, even can comprehend, what it would be like to be even making, 20 bucks an hour. So that's, what's that, 800 before taxes? So it's probably like 650 or something.

Jon: You're taking home. 

Jon: Yep. and then to be spending 1700. So that's like more than two paychecks after taxes or whatever. Crazy. it's, it's just insane. and it's one of those things where the only reason it continues is because the majority of the people who make the laws about zoning and housing and.

Jon: Affordable housing, live in houses and aren't paying that much money. 'cause if they were, they would be freaking out along with the rest of us, 

Rainnor: Yeah. No, it's scary. It's a, it's like an uphill battle for sure. if renting, just, yeah. there's no equity.

Rainnor: You're not working towards anything. It's just money out the window. 

Jon: Yeah. I will say, in one defense of renting. I've got a massive plumbing leak that I have got a quote for $11,000 that I have to pay. So renting is not that bad when you get a massive bill for $11,000. I think about that and I'm like, it's not all bad.

Rainnor: Yeah. 

Jon: Yeah. Home ownership, especially like this building that we're in, it's 1835. 

Rainnor: Wow. 

Jon: So it's just so old. And so like literally we've got this cast iron pipe that, it's gonna cost all this money to take out, and I'm like. 

Rainnor: Geez. 

Jon: and it's, it is what it is, Yep. But anyway, Rainnor, we're gonna wrap it up.

Jon: cool. Thank you for watching the, the John Kepp Show. Thank you for being on the John Kepp show. Yeah, this was fun.

Rainnor: Thanks for having me.